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  • 1 year later...
  • Hash Fellow
Posted

I'm learning to 3D print now.

Here is the front face of the medal fresh out of the resin printer. It is printed at an angle to reduce layer lines.

DSC01866sm on build plate.jpg

 

Now dried and cured. Printing supports not removed yet. Some will snap off, others have to be snipped off.

DSC01872MedalSupports.jpg

 

Medal face. I'm trying to judge if anything needs to be made more prominent to survive the casting process. All of the detail has to fit in the 1mm between the floor and the rim of the "dish".

DSC01869smMedalFront.jpg

 

CU of Thom and his paint brush. Layer lines are just barely apparent. They are more like random noise.

DSC01867sm Thom CU.jpg

  • exciting 1
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  • *A:M User*
Posted

Wow!   Looking really good!  How long did the print take? 

  • Hash Fellow
Posted
5 hours ago, Roger said:

Wow!   Looking really good!  How long did the print take? 

Thanks! Two hours and 4 minutes.

  • Hash Fellow
Posted

Here is WIP on the "Thom the Thinker" for "Finish the Unfinished"

Early version:

image.png

 

Redo after more study of the original:

image.png

 

Thom is changed to a sculptor:
image.png

 

Splined:

image.png

 

Test print:
DSC01874smThinker.jpg

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Hash Fellow
Posted

The medal was designed to be 2.5 inches but my new digital calipers reveal it to be a mere 2.47 inches.

DSC01888CalipersSM.jpg

  • 3 weeks later...
  • Hash Fellow
Posted

The current plan...

I'll print out these forms which contain positives of the medal face and reverse.  Then I fill those with Plaster of Paris to make the molds. the pegs modeled into the forms should make the plaster halves fit together... exactly.

FormsinChor.png

  • Like 1
  • Hash Fellow
Posted

I 3D printed these tiny molds to test out the Plaster of Paris idea...

DSC01889sm minimolds.jpg

 

It mostly works. I used Vaseline to coat the sides but it was too stiff and prevented the plaster from reaching every corner...

DSC01890smMiniMoldPlaster.jpg

 

 

Plaster of Paris can match even very small details, this is from the bottom of the cup I mixed the plaster in, but getting all the bubbles out is a problem.

DSC01892smStyrofoam.jpg

 

Here is a full print of the medal face and the plaster impression. This time I used soapy water to coat the plastic.

Notice the bottom edge of the print is curved. That is not a lens distortion, it should be straight but warped somehow in printing. Getting a truly flat surface or straight line in these 3D prints is difficult, but i will need to have that for this to work.
DSC01893smMold&PlasterB.jpg

 

DSC01895smEPANNIS.jpg

The nooks and crannies of the text are the least successful. It's possible i just need to let the plaster dry longer.
 

  • Hash Fellow
Posted

This hi-temperature silicone material looks ideal but the need for a precision scale to measure it and a vacuum chamber to de-bubble the mixture is a problem.
 

 

  • Hash Fellow
Posted

Melting pewter in a tiny frying pan...

DSC01897smPewterInPot.jpg

 

poured in the plaster mold...

DSC01900smInMold.jpg

 

This first test looks pretty cheap and awful...

DSC01901smResult.jpg

 

The pewter doesn't want to fill all the details...

DSC01902smResultCU.jpg

  • *A:M User*
Posted

Not bad for a first try, though.   Maybe you need to add something to the pewter to get it to flow better?

Posted

The following are from someone who hasn't done/seen any metal casting since high school shop class (+45 years ago).

Suggestions (if you haven't already tried these):

  • warm the mold (a cold mold can cause the molten metal to skin over on contact preventing it from flowing into the small details)
  • Use Jeweler's Talc (very fine without impurities/additives - no asbestos) very lightly brushed on the mold surface (helps the molten metal flow - reduces surface tension)
  • brush aside the surface scum on the molten metal

Also, since your half mold is shallow, you have the added disadvantage of less weight (molten metal) pushing it in to the mold details and displacing the air.

  • Hash Fellow
Posted
9 hours ago, Ganthofer said:

The following are from someone who hasn't done/seen any metal casting since high school shop class (+45 years ago).

We had shop class ("Industrial Arts") but unfortunately, no metal casting!

 

These are good suggestions...

Quote

warm the mold (a cold mold can cause the molten metal to skin over on contact preventing it from flowing into the small details)


I heated the mold to 350° beforehand. Since the plaster survived that I'll try hotter next time.

Quote

Use Jeweler's Talc (very fine without impurities/additives - no asbestos) very lightly brushed on the mold surface (helps the molten metal flow - reduces surface tension)


I had read to use powdered graphite as a "release" to keep the mold from sticking to the pewter. The pewter did fall right out of the mold after it cooled but I wonder if graphite has the same surface tension benefit as the talc?

 

Quote

brush aside the surface scum on the molten metal

I should do that.
 

Quote

Also, since your half mold is shallow, you have the added disadvantage of less weight (molten metal) pushing it in to the mold details and displacing the air.

The final version of the mold will have both halves clam-shelled together with the medal shape on edge. Hopefully that will be "deeper" than lying flat.

 

  • Hash Fellow
Posted

New problem....

1 The text and other decorations are modeled straight 

2 Distortion boxes are used in the Chor to fit those to the curve of the medal

3 To bake-in those curves, a new MDL is exported from the Chor, but the laurel leaves get corrupted.

It worked before, now it doesn't. I'll need to try an earlier version.

ExportFromChorDistorted.jpg

  • Hash Fellow
Posted

The new version has dual vents at the top and separately-printed snap-on side rails to contain the plaster when it is poured on.

image.png



the medal reverse will be printed separately and glued to the underside, hopefully accurately positioned bya tiny guide ring I have added.

image.png

  • Like 1
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  • 3 weeks later...
  • Hash Fellow
Posted

A test pour in a two-sided plaster cast...

DSC01905sm front & molds.jpg

DSC01910sm reverse.jpg

 

 

The detail is quite sharp in the lowest region of the mold...

DSC01906sm MMXIX.jpg

 

But less sharp and noisier near the top...

DSC01907sm upper.jpg

 

The dinosaur face is particularly messy...
DSC01909sm dinoFace.jpg

  • Like 1
  • clap 1
Posted

Much improved!

My thoughts on the top being less sharp/noisy could be due to a decrease in weight pushing down (less material above) or the molten metal cooling slightly as it comes to the end of the pour. 

  • Hash Fellow
Posted

Whoops! The mold leaked!

DSC01912smplasterleak.jpg

 

I guess i need to the traditional "delft clay" a try. Plaster of Paris is very detailed but it takes too long to harden, too long to know if i have a good impression, and it's hard to get the two halves exactly fitting each other.

  • exciting 1
  • Hash Fellow
Posted

Delft clay casting requires a frame to contain the clay but most are just a few inches across, for casting objects like buttons or rings..

On the premise that a deep mold will get a more detailed cast I've made frame that is 8 inches high.

DSC01915smFrame.jpg

  • Like 1
  • Hash Fellow
Posted

A 3D photo before it gets melted back down.

Cross your eyes to merge the left and middle image to see 3D.  The middle and right image are for people who prefer to "parallel view".

 

CastLeakStereo.JPG

  • Like 1
  • 2 weeks later...
  • Hash Fellow
Posted

I'm waiting for my delft clay to arrive.

Here is another attempt with plaster.

DSC01931sm Upright.jpg

 

 

 

 

Although this had taller spouts to provide a deeper mold the overall result is poor. Once again the bottom has sharp detail. Notice that even the circular layer lines of the 3D print are still visible...

DSC01930sm CU layer lines.jpg

 

The top, however is quite lacking...

DSC01929sm top CU.jpg

Posted

Hmm. The top third looks much worse than the previous test in the post from October 26th. Warmed and dusted (talc or graphite) the mold? I hope it flows in the deft clay better.

  • Hash Fellow
Posted

In the above attempt I dusted the mold with graphite dust but did not pre-heat it.

For this one I preheated it to 425°F but at that temp there is nothing to stop the pewter from leaking through the tiniest crevices. I put some lithium grease around the edge but that did not seal it.

the part of the medal that did get cast has weak detail again.

DSC01935 RLR.JPG

 

I tried to spoon out the slag before I poured but it seems like there is an infinite amount bubbling up to the top. You can never scoop it all out.

(you may have to download this to see it.

 


 

Posted

It almost looks like it's boiling. Some kind of crystals constantly forming. Could be the Oxidation process mentioned below

The possible causes I could find are: 

  • Keep the temperature stable: If the molten pewter turns gold, purple, or white, it's too hot. A stable temperature is crucial for preventing excessive oxidation, which leads to more slag. 
  • Use a flux: Add a small amount of beeswax to the surface to prevent oxidation, which will help impurities form a distinct layer on top.
  • Hash Fellow
Posted

I'm afraid the only temperature control I have is ON or OFF.  I guess I need to pour it the instant the pewter has melted.

I suppose I thought that if I got it as hot as possible it would flow more freely into the mold.

Posted

The beeswax might help to keep it from oxidizing (if that is what we are seeing) at the surface.

Is the molten pewter tinted (e.g. no longer silver in color) as mentioned in the "Keep the Temperature stable:" above?

Does the melting pot give any specs on it max temp? I see the melting pots 500Watt rating in one of the photos.

Did the pewter come with a data sheet or the composition of it (e.g. %tin, %antimony, %copper - assuming leadfree pewter?) to research the appropriate temperature range that should be used?

Then of course, finding a thermometer with a suitable range to check the temp.

If it is too hot, it should be possible to add a thermal cutoff (sensor) to the melting pot. I modified a small crockpot in this manner to maintain a temp in the required 140-150 degrees F. As an alternative, a Dimmer switch rated for a 600Watt incandescent light bulb should make it possible to reduce the temperature. This of course requires a thermometer and time to adjust the dimmer then wait for the temp to stabilize and measure, repeat .... until it's at desired temp.

Just throwing out some ideas.

  • Hash Fellow
Posted

The pewter was this item

Casting Pewter Alloy(98% Tin-15oz), Low Melting Point Metal 338-446°F, Jewelry Crafting, Sculpture and Artistic Project, Option in Hemisphere/Ingot, Professional Metal for Artisan Craft & DIY Item

 

It looked nice and shiny in the picture!

 

Heating the mold to 425° was probably overkill

 

16 hours ago, Ganthofer said:

Is the molten pewter tinted (e.g. no longer silver in color) as mentioned in the "Keep the Temperature stable:" above?

The slag had a slight yellow tinge  but the molten metal looked silvery.

 

Quote

Does the melting pot give any specs on it max temp? I see the melting pots 500Watt rating in one of the photos.

I bought the cheapest crucible I could buy. I notice now ... it's not UL listed!


It says it can melt lead which is about 620°F, much hotter than I need for pewter. I should pour as soon as the ingots have collapsed.

  • Like 1
  • Hash Fellow
Posted

Here is yet another attempt:

 

 

Scouring with a 3M Scotchbrite® pad cleaned it up a bit...

DSC01939sm.jpg

 

  • clap 1
Posted

Definitely making progress.

The delft clay should be interesting. 

Using the plaster of paris mold, If you make another 3D print, invert it. Pour hole from the other edge of the medal, just to verify that whatever is at the bottom is coming out sharper.

How smooth is the 3D resin printed surface? What kind of small defects are there? From the early photos at the top, it looks like there are fine lines. Also, the surface may have micro bubble which makes it somewhat like being porous. The plaster of paris will adhere to it slightly. You might try sealing the 3D resin print with some sort of spray paint/sealer.  Polyurethane, a two-part epoxy, or a specialized acrylic spray. Obviously, it needs to be very thin coat, or it will also smooth out the details.

Another thought popped into my mind. Making the details deeper, so that sealing the 3D resin print can smooth/seal everything and not make the resulting details to small. Making the 3D resin print with the expectation that the paint/sealer will add a certain amount of thickness to everything.

If you seal the 3D resin object, then Silicone spray (which is thin as water) might work as a release agent for the plaster of paris mold. 

Likewise, it might be possible to find some sort of High temp sealer that could be applied to the fully cured plaster of paris mold to fill the micro bubbles, etc.

If pressure/weight is what is making the bottoms of the coin sharper, then there are few other possibilities to increase the pressure:

  1. make the Fill spout bigger/taller 
  2. Centrifugal force - somehow spinning the mold so there is more apparent weight. Pouring while it's spinning is probably not possible without a very complicated setup. but spinning immediately after pouring may help. Depends on if the pewter has already solidified too much, or if it's still somewhat fluid inside.
  3. linear Acceleration - fill the mold, then launch/push the mold in the direction of the fill hole spout. Of course, timing would be a bit critical. The reason above (still fluid) and the upward acceleration would have to continue until the pewter solidified of the deceleration could just cause the problem else ware due to where the weight/pressure shifted to.

Don't mind me, it's just the theoretical mad scientist throwing things at the wall to see if anything sticks 🤪

  • Hash Fellow
Posted
11 hours ago, Ganthofer said:

How smooth is the 3D resin printed surface? data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAPABAP///wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw==

To the naked eye it appear exceedingly smooth but not shiny. The layer lines can only be seen on VERY close inspection with a magnifier.

Quote

What kind of small defects are there? From the early photos at the top, it looks like there are fine lines. Also, the surface may have micro bubble which makes it somewhat like being porous. The plaster of paris will adhere to it slightly. You might try sealing the 3D resin print with some sort of spray paint/sealer.  Polyurethane, a two-part epoxy, or a specialized acrylic spray. Obviously, it needs to be very thin coat, or it will also smooth out the details.

My problem is getting such a thing absolutely evenly applied and so it is not collecting into crevices.

 


 

Quote

 

If pressure/weight is what is making the bottoms of the coin sharper, then there are few other possibilities to increase the pressure:

make the Fill spout bigger/taller 

 

For plaster I would need to make a two-part 3D master rint as 6 inches is about the top-to-bottom limit for one printed piece. It's possible.

My delft clay frame is already taller since the spout holes are carved post-impression and don't need to be part of the 3D print as for plaster.

 

Quote

 

Centrifugal force - somehow spinning the mold so there is more apparent weight. Pouring while it's spinning is probably not possible without a very complicated setup. but spinning immediately after pouring may help. Depends on if the pewter has already solidified too much, or if it's still somewhat fluid inside.

linear Acceleration - fill the mold, then launch/push the mold in the direction of the fill hole spout. Of course, timing would be a bit critical. The reason above (still fluid) and the upward acceleration would have to continue until the pewter solidified of the deceleration could just cause the problem else ware due to where the weight/pressure shifted to.

 

These are less likely. Spinning a bucket of molten pewter around the kitchen seems awkward.

 

 

Here is another go with plaster...

 

 

 

  • 4 weeks later...
  • Hash Fellow
Posted

The first attempt with Delft clay.

The basic process is to fill the bottom half of the frame (on right) with clay, pound it flat, add the 3D print.

Next, other half of the frame (on left) is placed and more clay is added and pounded flat to force an impression of the 3D print. 

The two halves are pulled apart to remove the 3D print and reveal the negative void it leaves behind.

Unfortunately, all the pounding broke the 3D print.

DSC01945sm two sides.jpg

 

The clay has to be pounded very tightly to get a good impression and so that the two sides retain their shape when they are pulled apart. The "Clay" is really more like clumpy sand.

DSC01946sm CU scroll side.jpg

 

DSC01947sm CU Face side.jpg

 

I cast it anyway to see what would result. Here are the two sides put back together waiting for the pewter to melt and be poured into the top hole.

 

DSC01948sm two sides together.jpg

 

And... it leaked!

DSC01949sm after cast.jpg

 

CU of the cast...

 

 

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